I am currently planning on getting my PPL in March and am really interested in ATP because of their connection with Spirit, Frontier, and Avelo. I would love to use the opportunity to bypass the regionals and was told that I would have a guaranteed interview with these companies but not a guaranteed position. I will be honest, I don’t like ATPs high price tag, so I also wanted to see what the likelihood is of getting an FO position out of a flight school that is not associated with ATP. I understand that companies like JetBlue, Spirit, and Frontier do hire young pilots out of school with no experience, but do not know what the odds are that I would get that opportunity without ATP. Will it be harder to get a spot if I don’t go through with ATP? What’re the actual chances that I would even be given an interview with these airlines? I have heard of people successfully getting positions with these companies but don’t know what my specific chances are as well as if I would even be looked at.
I will be honest, I’ve been a mentor on this forum for over 20yrs, I’m a Capt/Check airman for a Legacy carrier and have literally hundreds of friends at virtually every airline in the country, and I don’t know a single pilot who bypassed the Regionals WITHOUT going through ATPs Direct Entry program. Do you? (Not “heard of a guy”, actually KNOW someone).
There’s an old expression, “you get what you pay for”. Fun fact, years before there was a pilot shortage and getting hired was almost a given, ATP grads were getting hired with reduced minimums (when that was legal) when most pilots couldn’t even an interview. The reason was that ATP grads have proven they can successfully handle the pace of newhire training. Yes an FAA license is an FAA license, but how challenging that training is matters. ATP was created by airline pilots to train airline pilots and they modeled the program after actual airline newhire training. While getting hired is relatively easy these days, getting through newhire training is not and the airlines are all experiencing record washouts. ATP pioneered the Direct Entry program because their grads can handle it.
Ultimately you can do what you like but IF you go elsewhere you may or may not have the opportunity to bypass a Regional but what’s a bigger question is will you be able to transition from a light twin to a Boeing or Airbus?
I really appreciate your insight. I also really like to see how active you are on the forums.
What if, say for example, I work for a regional airline for about two years, or let’s say even one year? Do you think it is then possible to get hired by JetBlue, Spirit, or even legacy airlines like Delta, American, or United just by gaining as many hours as possible within a year or two? I was speaking to a flight instructor who said that that’s an option, but do not know how accurate that is since some people say it could take people even up to 4 years at a regional to upgrade to a major.
Is this even possible to rack up as many hours as possible at the regionals for a year and then upgrade to the airlines that I mentioned? Or am I being given some wrong information?
You’re not given wrong info. There are people who get picked up by the Majors after a year, some 2, some 3, some 5, some 10, some never. You need to understand getting hired by a Major is the pinnacle of this career and frankly not everyone gets there. Bust a few too many checkrides, suffer an accident or incident, get a DUI (or some other trouble) or simply don’t interview well and you could very well spend alot more time at a Regional than you like. As I said some never make it.
Thing is if you’re desire is to be an airline pilot that’s really not that bad a thing. I know a few Regional “lifers” who are really happy. But if you’re only doing this to get paid or the prestige you could be very disappointed as there are zero guarantees in this industry.
I do not not a single pilot that has gone straight to an airline like Frontier, Spirit, or Avelo that was not an ATP graduate, not one. These airlines partner with ATP because they know the quality of the pilots produced and that the majority of them will do well in training at the airlines. Smaller schools, while potentially less expensive, typically do not offer the same quality of training and thus do not have the hiring partnerships that ATP has.
I would further encourage you to look beyond just the price quoted by any school. Many schools quote a piece based of minimum hours required but the FAA, almost nobody completes their ratings that quickly. Also, age and maintenance of the airplanes is a significant safety concern.
Anything is possible with feasible goals, the chances of going straight into a Major is not unheard of, but it’s not a common trend. ATP offers the ability to those that demonstrate outstanding performance, professionalism, and good standing with the company. While you can interview for cadet programs like Frontier’s (F9), you still have to complete all the prerequisites before attending. While there are individuals attending a Regional airline for a year or two and “jumping ship” to a LCC, the class dates and hiring has slowed down momentarily (i.e., Southwest, Frontier). Is it expected to pick up? We don’t know, no one will until hiring starts back up. When you first begin at a Regional you will more likely see reserve for the first few months, so to “rack up” hours will be determined on a multitude of factors.
As for the monetary side of things, ATP’s price is a fixed number (with exception to checkride/written fees, and additional training, if need). While many want to argue that ATP is expensive, I would love to find a flight school that is not charging a minimum $250-300/hr for airplane and instructor. The safety rating and pass rate of ATP is exceptionally larger than most schools that we can name. The amount of available resources and opportunities that ATP created for students/instructors and alumni, is fantastic. I really encourage you look deeper than just the cost.
Chris shared a great link, the other thing is to discuss with the finance department if you have specific financial questions.
I personally have not; but there’s always that 1 person who knows someone, that grew up with someone, who had that 1 connection, that pulled that string.
ATP crafts the training program to teach flight students the skills necessary to be successful in future airline training. That’s why majors offer pathway programs exclusively to ATP grads because if there are any pilots that can skip the regionals and settle in successfully in the major environment it’s alumni of the program.
Sure you could save some money at other schools but you’ll be in the traditional pool of candidates that will more than likely spend a hop at the regionals before opportunities open at a major carrier. There’s nothing wrong with that as that was the norm for decades. But if you want a shot at going straight to Frontier or Spirit you need to participate in the pathway.
I’m a former ATP student and a current professional pilot. I don’t have any check ride failures BUT I never got my CFI ratings. I went to CFI school with ATP but was never able to take the CFI check ride. It’s been seven years and I’m still upset I wasn’t able to finish that training/rating. I wrote this because everything went very well for me during my training up until the very end.
I was a ferry pilot for a few months before being hired by a regional airline (Great Lakes Airlines) where I flew for seven months before they went out of business and I was furloughed. Next I was a on demand part 135 charter pilot flying various different Citations and earning multiple type ratings for five years before moving on to Frontier for about a year and am now at a legacy carrier.
On my days off I am instructor for ATP Jets in the Frontier Direct program and soon the ATP/CTP course as well. While I do see some students from time to time that aren’t ATP alumni, they all have come from a training program(ATP)/university/company that has some kind of agreement with Frontier or the military. They’re all exceptional candidates with no check ride failures and almost no negative training debrief notes in their records when I look to get a feel for my students before day one.
I always tell people I “skipped the regionals” because Great Lakes was such a small part of my story, but I still “paid my dues” learning and building time flying charter like others do at the regionals. You may be able to skip the regionals as well, never say never. However, you will still have to build time and experience somewhere before you head off to a legacy and possibly a major.
Lastly, just today I read an article speaking of a lot of speculation that Spirit might be on the verge of Chapter 11 filings. Frontier, Spirit, Southwest, Delta, United, and American have all adjusted their hiring goals down for this year if my memory is correct. So a school like ATP that operates at an accelerated pace and has certain agreements with airlines might be a smart move. While it’s great and healthy to dream about the future, step one is getting your PPL, step two is your instrument, etc.