Type Ratings

Once you get all of your licenses (private, IFR, multi, commercial, ATP) is the regional jet type rating included in the training program? I noticed there were other type ratings available.
Would you go through the program and get the regional jet rating, work for a regional carrier and then have them pay for ‘step up’ to a 737 NG (if even possible), or get it initially if you know you want to get a 737 rating (yet even more debt) for the future?

Blake,

When you get hired at an airline they will provide the type ratings necessary for the airplane that you will be operating for them. I have four type ratings and have not paid for a single one of them. Occasionally people will pay for their own type rating to look more attractive to a particular airline, but that is unnecessary.

Chris

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Ah, good to know. Saw you had a 737 rating. Ever consider Southwest or is that a competitive carrier to get hired with?

Blake,

I do have a 737 type rating, I received it as a new hire at Continental Airlines. At the time Southwest required pilots to have a 737 type rating when they applied to the airline, I believe that they now will interview you with out one, but require that you have it by the time you start at the airline. This is highly unusual in the industry, in fact they are the only airline that I can think of that operates this way.

I did not consider Southwest as an alternative and ironically I still do not meet their minimums to be hired there as I have yet to be a captain at any airline. I was hired at Continental at a rather young age in large part because of some connections that I had, if I had waited until I was eligible to be hired at Southwest I would have been at the regionals for many years longer.

Beyond those reasons I never had a desire to work for Southwest. Don’t get me wrong, they are a great company to work for, but I enjoy working for an airline that flies routes all over the world. The flying here is so diverse, I have bounced back and forth from international to domestic flying several times, I always enjoy the change of pace. On top of that we fly larger airplanes and earn more money than Southwest pilots do. Any pilot would be glad to be hired at Southwest, but there are some pretty compelling reasons to work for the legacy airlines like United, Delta, etc as well.

Chris

Thomas, Thomas, Thomas,

I know this can be a difficult concept if you’re not in the business but again, EVERYTHING THING AT THE AIRLINES IS BASED ON SENIORITY! PERIOD! You could be the guy who designed the 777 for Boeing, worked for Boeing as a test pilot, created the 777 training program and taught every instructor at United how to fly the 777 as an independent contractor, are the son of United CEO, a majority shareholder in the company, recognized by the FAA as the greatest and most knowledgeable 777 pilot in the history of the airframe and if one minute before you’re hired I was also hired by United from Silver Wings and had been flying nothing but turbo-props, and had ZERO jet experience and also had a history of failured checkrides but was given ONE seniority number higher than yours and there was only ONE 777 slot it’s MINE. But if there were two 777 slots and we both got one we’d BOTH go through the exact same United training program side by side. The only difference is you would not have to take a type ride since you’re already typed.

Make sense? Probably not but that’s the way it works.

Adam

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Thomas,

Ask as many times as you like. Sorry if I came across that way. Wasn’t trying to shut you down or your questions, I simply wanted to STRESS the point of how exact and inflexible the seniority system at the airlines is. When I started I had a really hard time grasping the concept. Didn’t make sense to me? It seemed silly that like in your example you have a talented experienced pilot of course he’d have a leg up but that just can’t and doesn’t exist in our world. Cool?

Adam

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But what if… Just kidding! :joy::sweat_smile:

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Not sure I’d say “brutally” but maybe I need to work on it?

I think you’re fine Adam, there are A LOT of what if questions along the same vein: “what if X, can I jump ahead of Y people”, all very slightly different but the same. If person Z was hired AT THAT COMPANY before you, the only ways you’re getting ahead of him are 1)He quits 2)He’s fired 3)His death(hopefully not). That’s all of it, nothing else will put you above his seniority.

I believe you once said Adam: “Even a space shuttle commander comes in as a junior FO…” or something along those lines…

Red,

You’re right he did say that in the past about the Space Shuttle Commander but the above trumps if not wins the “what ifs” of the day, month and possibly year in this forum! :joy::joy::joy::joy:

On a side note my coworkers are very very concerned and confused why I burst out laughing and am currently crying from the fit of laughter.

Bravo :clap:t2::clap:t2:

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Again I apologize if I was rude but hopefully I made my point?

And let me say this, while you will eventually all wrap your minds around this concept that does not make it “feel” any better. Obviously some pilots are “better” than other pilots so it stands to reason that at every airline there’s a “worst” pilot and eventually that “worst” pilot will upgrade to Capt (you could argue if he/she is that bad they couldn’t cut it but then they would no longer be a pilot and someone else would then be the worst). So when the day does come and you find yourself sitting next to Capt Clueless and you’re wondering “how the heck is this guy a Capt and I’m not?”. The answer again is seniority :slight_smile:

Adam

Thomas,

To answer a different aspect of your question. No, a type rating from another airline will not do anything to reduce your training time at another airline. Scenario: you are a 737 pilot at Southwest and are fully typed, you leave to go work for United instead and are assigned the 737. The company will put you through the exact same training as somebody who has never flown the 737. The reason is each airline has policies and procedures that can vary greatly from other airlines and even the Boeing manual. You need to be taught how to fly the airplane the “United way”. The only difference is add the end of your training and checkride you would technically be taking a “qualification” checkride and not a “type ride”.

Chris

Never change! Brutally honest is the best way to do it. I’ve been out of the country for a few days and I’m loving having the chance to crack up at some of hear replies!

Thomas,

Yes your first Regional will train and get you your ATP as part of your Type training. It’s good for life (provided you have a valid Medical) and remain “current” (there is no license review). There is no other or further text to go from your R-ATP to the unrestricted. If you’ve met all the flight (if you had under 1500hrs) and age (23) requirements the FAA can simply issue you a new one.

Adam

Thomas,

Yes. Regional airlines will pay for you to attend ATP CTP. However, it’s on
you to prepare yourself for the ATM (ATP Multiengine written exam).

A restricted ATP is a little more complicated than just age and hours, but
you get the gist. There will be no difference in training or cost. I’m not
100% certain, but I think the only difference is your license will say RATP
and have a list of things you can’t do until the restriction is removed,
but again…most people go for the full ATP license. RATP eligibility
requires either a military background or an aviation degree with a Letter
of Authorization from the FAA, etc…I’m quoting FAR 61.160.

Tory

N8900.310 reads: 8. Designee Removal of ATP Certificate Limitations Issued in Accordance with §§ 61.159 and 61.160. a. Designated Pilot Examiners. A DPE authorized to issue an ATP certificate may remove the limitations by verifying the pilot meets the minimum age and aeronautical experience requirements. The applicant only needs to present satisfactory evidence that he or she has met the age requirement of § 61.153(a)(1) and the aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.159, as applicable (refer to § 61.160(g) and (h)). The applicant must complete section III— Record of Pilot Time, on FAA Form 8710-1, Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application Supplemental Information and Instructions, to be issued an unrestricted ATP certificate.

So yea it is just about age and hours :slight_smile:

Adam

I never said you were wrong, Adam. I just don’t want people thinking that
getting a RATP is that simple. Converting your RATP to a standard ATP,
sure. But I know that you know that an initial RATP requires a lot more
than that.

Tory

Let’s say that I have been A320 type rated by American Airlines, how do I get type rated to another aircraft? Do I bid on it or just request it? Thanks in advance!

Bryan,

Every few months pilots have the opportunity to bid different aircraft. If there is a spot open on their desired airplane and if they are senior enough to hold that spot, they will have it awarded to them and the company will train them (to include a type rating) on the new airplane.

Chris

So, right after you are hired by a regional airline, you are trained to obtain the ATP CTP and the type rating for the aircraft you will be assigned. After you complete these trainings/classes, then you can finally start working as a FO. Am I getting it right?

How long does the training usually take?

I was talking to a pilot from other country the other day, and he said the initial training (citation, type ratings, etc.) at airlines in his country takes several months to 1.5 year (regional - several months, major - 1yr to 1.5yr).
And even worse, pilots have to pay the cost with their own money. Some companies pay for them, but they have to work for their company for certain years; if not, they have to pay back when they leave.
I don’t think this is the way it is in the US, right? (I hope not :scream:)