Testing question about writtens, etc

What happens if you don’t pass a written? Retakes? Or fail and bail? As far as checkrides, it’s my understanding those can be retaken maybe once, twice? That’s what I’ve seen online in the forums and youtube videos…

Trying to prepare myself.

Robert,

Failing a written test or check ride can happen. When it does, and if you choose to try again, you will receive retraining in the areas that you were either found deficient and/or didn’t get a chance to demonstrate, followed by another endorsement from your instructor stating that you have been retrained and have the ability to pass.

Now, let’s talk about repeated failures. There’s no regulation that will prevent someone from retaking a written or check ride. As far as I am concerned, legally, they can be taken as many times as it takes. Finding an instructor to provide you with the proper endorsements to retake the tests is where someone could potentially be stopped, depending on the instructor’s comfort level and the student’s abilities and history.

I don’t know if ATP has an official cut off limit, but what I can tell you from experience is when I was a CFI at ATP, students were allowed to retake the same check ride three times. If it ever got to the third attempt, the student was reassigned to a different instructor. This procedure worked 99% of the time. There’s something to be said about being taught the same thing by a different instructor. Sometimes all the the student needs is to hear or see things in a different way to help them overcome a plateau.

Too many failures will jeopardize the guaranteed CFI position that ATP promises. I haven’t actually seen this in writing, but it seems to be the concensous that the guaranteed CFI job is lost if a student fails more than two check rides. That doesn’t mean that the position is completely lost. It’s just not guaranteed anymore.

Tory

Robert,

If you fail an FAA Knowledge exam you can retake and I don’t believe there’s a limit? That said there really is no reason for that to ever happen. I’m not being “hard” when I say that but the fact is that ALL the questions on ALL the exams are readily available. Now while some might have a better grasp on the material, most people study strictly by rote memorization and that is simply a matter of repetition. If you’ve been studying and not getting consistently high scores on the practice exams (again readily available) then you need to study more. Still not getting good scores? Study some more. Failed a Written? Then you didn’t study enough.

Now when it comes to checkrides that’s a different story. Checkrides are dynamic. The examiner, the airplane, the weather, how you’re feeling that day, all can have their effects which is why many pilots have at least one bust. The good thing is if/when you bust you need only repeat that maneuver. Now a second bust while less common can of course happen. Beyond that there needs to be some further assessment. As Tory said ATP will have you fly with another instructor and try and determine the cause. Bust enough of checkrides and it will have an effect on your career. The fact is not everyone can or should be a pilot but more times than not it’s about putting in the work.

Adam

Robert,

If one does not pass a written, they will need to retrain and then take the test again. That being said, the writtens are not that difficult, if one fails them I would seriously urge that person to think about their future in the program.

As for checkrides, technically they can be taken as often as an instructor is willing to sign one off for them, but realistically, it would be difficult to fins a CFI to do that after the second failure. As far as ATP is concerned, after two failures one is subject to dismissal from the program.

Don’t focus on all of these what-iffs. Go into the program with the mentality that you are going to work so hard that failure is not possibly an option.

Chris

1 Like

Thanks for the explanations. I can’t imagine that the written testing would be any harder than what I’ve had to go thru in my financial career up to this point. Also, having an actual interest in the subject you’re studying makes the studying easier I think. Having to learn something and wanting to learn something are completely different.

As always, thanks for your time and feedback!

Is there a limit to how many written exams can you fail with ATP flightschool. I’m currently at atp flightschool and its been a month since i started. I have failed my par written exam 3 times. I am a hardworker, ive been non stop learning and staying on top my flights. Its just with the knowledge it takes time for me to understand and fully know it. Ive sacrificed alot to be in this program so i am determined to succeed no matter what. I just dont want to be deferred.

Ali,

As there is no limit to how many you can fail in the eyes of the FAA, eventually you will have to sit across from a DPE determining whether you are a pilot or need more training. I am unsure if there is a limit at ATP at this time, but there will be a time that you just have to question if it’s worth another failure. The last student that I supervised as a lead instructor had 3 failures, finally got it on the 4th attempt and completed ATP’s program with the exception of the CFIs. We had many sit-down conversations and training plans that involved both the student and instructor’s responsibility.

You should be sitting everyday studying in the training center with your primary instructor and if they aren’t available finding help, going over any and all questions that could be asked on the PAR. Understanding the material is one thing, rote memorization is another and that is how a majority of students complete the writtens. How have you been studying if I may ask? As the program moves on, it gets exponentially faster, and more is expected of the student. Once you pass the PAR, we all recommend using Sheppard Air for every written thereafter, for the reason of rote memorization.

Brady

Ali,

As Brady said, I’m not sure ATP has a limit but at some point they will probably sit you down for a heart to heart. To be frank the FAA Writtens are cake compared to what you’re going to face at the airlines not to mention there’s no doubt your examiner is going to have some serious questions.

I’m not sure what the issue is as I’m not your instructor but this is something you’re going to need to remedy sooner than later.

Not to pour salt on the wound but this is also a MAJOR reason we recommend completing the writtens prior to training.

Adam

This is also directed towards Mr. Brady. For my studying, i am reading through the chapters, making flashcards, going through the question bank on kingschools and watching the video’s as i was told lots of the questions on the par are similar to questions from kingschools. However on this recent par, i did not see any questions from kingschools but mostly from sportys, pilot test prepware and ASA 2022 pilot prep. As of now i am studying through sportys and asa 2022 test prep. Since i was told by the people at the test prep center that is how they study. By rote memorization. I was told from my lead instructor if i failed this last exam. They will send this up to the review board and it is up to them if i will stay in the program or not. Currently i am memorizing and studying the question bank from sportys and asa test prep. While also prepping for my solo eval on friday. Need to get my comms down. I know eventually i will be asked why it took me 4 times to pass the par and honestly ill tell them i was not fully prepared going in and there was no exact perfect method i was told to study. Its pretty much been all over the place. But as of now, im not going to give up. I just need to know who i should speak to to know if atp will defer me.

Ali,

The only ones that can defer your program are those in an administrative position, such as a TSM or RDOT, or higher. If you have questions referring program inquiries you should speak with your TSS, if you have one. Your TSS will act as a liaison for you and the TSM/RDOT if necessary.

There is no “exact perfect method” that is published online because everyone learns differently and studies in different ways. Some learners are better with auditorial while others are visual learners. The best method is the one you find to be successful. Also since I’ve been on the forum from 2019, I’ve only heard rote memorization. Similar to as Adam said, we really recommend trying to complete at least the PAR prior to entry.

I would be spending most of my day at the training center in a quiet room if possible studying and if a question comes up, ask a peer. All of the methods you provided above did not include seeking help from a peer. We learn best from others and in aviation that’s a great deal of how we will learn; only that the questions are similar etc.

Brady

Brady,

Yes, i have been utilizing the help from my peers and it helps a ton. I will continue to learn and try different approaches. My main issue is to pass this Par. So i can focus more on my flying. Do you think it would be wise to contact the TSM even though my TSS is already in contact with them.

Ali Yusuf

Ali,

I will admit, I find this concerning for a few reasons. If this does not begin to click with you, you might need to reconsider your involvement in the aviation industry. You will have many more of these types of written exams ahead of you, both in your training and at the airlines and the airlines will probably not let you take the test any more than twice.

There is no exact perfect method and it is nobody’s responsibility to tell you how to study. You need to figure out what works for you, whether it is rote memorization or actually learning the material. Either way, it is on you to figure out how to best study for this.

Chris

Chris,

I understand that completely, I knew what I signed up for and no matter how hard it gets, its not impossible. This is just a minor bump in my path that will soon be overcome. Thank you all for answering my questions. I had a great talk with my instructors today and my peers are with me. We help and push each other to be greater then yesterday. Every day is a new day, to learn and become better.

Thanks,

Ali Yusuf