Real Answers from Real Pilots

October Schedule- Transition and Upgrade!


Ok so October I flew my last (hopefully) A330 trip AND (more hopefully) my last trip as an FO, EVER! Woohoo!

10/1-4 OFF
10/5 HNL-SYD
10/6 Day in SYD *Last A330 Trip!
10/7 SYD-HNL
10/8 Resv No Call
10/9 Mx Ferry HNL-OGG-HNL *Last A330 flight (they had to sneak that one in!)
10/10 GS (Ground School) CRM
10/11 OFF
10/12 GS Gen Ops
10/13-16 GS 717 Systems and VPT (Virtual Procedures Training, like a non moving sim)
10/17-18 OFF/STUDY!!!
10/19 Pump Up for PV (Procedures Validation)
10/20 PV/Pump Up for KV (Knowledge Validation)
10/21 KV
10/22-10/28 OFF
10/29 TVL to sim HNL-BNE
10/30 OFF in BNE
10/31 Sim#1

(Emmanuel D ) #2

Congrats in advance Adam :raised_hands::raised_hands::raised_hands::raised_hands::airplane:

(Jeremy Headrick) #3


Since your in training most of the month, how does your pay work when your not flying? Is it based on the amount of class time or do they just pay you like your on reserve?



It varies from airline to airline but at Hawaiian it is similar to Reserve in that you’ll receive at least your min guarantee of 75 hours. Each training day is credited at a flat rate plus any flying so it usually goes above that. Plus we get per diem for the time away since we train in Australia.



Hold on, you are training in Australia?


Only Sim and I’m actually partially to blame. Hawaiian and Delta are the only 2 US carriers who operate the 717. We were training in SEA with Boeing but they removed the 717 sims and moved them to MIA. Since Delta has 5 times the 71’s we do they basically get preferential treatment with regards to schedules. I was training as a newhire in SEA when Boeing informed our 717 Fleet CA (who was also my instructor) they were removing the sims. We were eating dinner and he was complaining about the sitch. I was bored and Googled 717 sims on my phone and joking I said “hey you know Boeing Australia has 717 sims in BNE”. He said really?, called the Director of Training and the next thing you know we were going to BNE for sim! The Best part is the Beware of Snakes signs on all the sims. No I’m not kidding!


No good deed goes unpunished.

(Jeremy Headrick) #9

How is the upgrade training going? I remember we talked about HAL wanting an all Airbus fleet but I saw the article about them being open to the 787. Have you seen this airplane and do you think it could be a replacement for the 717?


Almost pau.

Bombardier actually flew one out to HNL for the boss to take a look at. Apparently it’s a very nice airplane the question is durability? Our 717’s are tanks. They do 14-16 cycles a day, EVERYDAY. From what I heard Delta has a bunch on order and we’ll see how they fair.


(Jeremy Headrick) #11


In the video it says that the 717 was a commercial failure, how do they figure? HAL puts those things through the ringer every day and they keep on going. Do they consider it a failure because the were only around 150 ordered? What did the boss think of it the plane?

Glad to hear your almost finished.



Ok, a little airframe history here. The Boeing 717 isn’t really a Boeing, it’s a Douglas which started life back in 1965 as the DC-9, which became the MD-80’s, then the MD-90’s and eventually the 717 when Boeing took over MacDonnell Douglas. The 717 is technically an MD-95 which integrated the MD-11 glass instrumentation. The airframe itself was a great success being produced for 40yrs and was essentially the first Regional Jet. The problem is by the time Boeing assumed production Canadier and Embraer were just introducing their nifty new RJ’s which were a heck of a lot cheaper and dramatically more fuel efficient. Sales dropped and Boeing finally scraped the airframe. So yes, the B717 version was a failure BUT again the airframe itself was not.

Fun Fact, there is no Boeing 717 Type rating so I actually have a DC-9 Type Rating which is kind of scary if you’ve ever seen that cockpit.


(Heather Bryce) #13

I am so happy for you. Thank you for your excellent advice.

(Kristena Y Cook) #14

Training in Australia sounds superb!!!


I enjoy it. Except of course when a Magpie attacks you while you’re bike riding and slices open your ear or there’s a fairly toxic green jumping spider on your car. Good times.


(L) #16

Thanks so much for posting this information Adam. Looking at the pay scale posed by Hawaiian do the years you spent flying the A330 count toward the pay you will receive on the 717? So for example if you spent 3 years flying the A330 and switch to the 717 do you start at the year 4 level on that pay chart? Mahalo Nui!



Yes the pay scales at all airlines are based on “years of service” at the airline, not on any specific airplane. Same goes for upgrade. If you’ve been at an airline for 5yrs and upgrade to Capt you start at 5th year Capt pay.


(L) #18

Wow that is great! Thank you for sharing that information!

(Pete) #19

Hey Adam just out of curiosity, does a new hire at HAL usually go to the A321? Heard that 717’s are fairly senior, how long did it take you to upgrade to widebody when you were first hired? With the new 787 coming, bet some folks may be lining up to bid for that?



First of all going from FO to Capt is an upgrade. Moving to the widebody is a transition. It’s a different plane and does a different kind of flying, nothing more, nothing less. At Hawaiian (as with most airlines) you’ll find junior and senior pilots on most airplanes. As for airplane assignments HA newhires go where there’s a need and vacancies. Some go 717, some go 321, some 330. When I was hired we bid for available slots. Since I was junior in my class (based on my SS#) I got the last pick which was the 717 but I could have just as easily gotten the 767 or 330.

As for the 787s they won’t be here till 2020 so we’ve got some time. Despite what you think most pilots with any experience are really less impressed with shiny new metal and care more about the particulars and how that will effect their quality of life. Pilots look at pay, destinations and trip duration. I for example plan on staying on the 717 for as long as they’re here (or I retire, whichever comes first). It’s the smallest of the fleet and pays the least but it allows me to be home every night and I enjoy the flying. While it’s always cool to add another Type to your license after a month the “coolness” wears off and it’s just another plane. Until they announce the details no one is lining up for anything. They actually posted an opening for 787 Fleet Capt to start working on the training program. There were no applicants.



The 787 went rather junior at United as pilots were hesitant to sign up for an airplane with an unknown trip mix. Pilots pick airplanes based primarily off lifestyle, not the airplane itself.