Real Answers from Real Pilots

Hawaiian Airlines


(Dario) #1

Adam, just got back from a trip from SFO and was fortunate to talk to the A330 HAL pilots after both flights. I asked them about ATP and I did not here good things. They did not recommend ATP at all and they said the pilots that come out of the progam are poorly trained. It was a bummer to hear that, because that is my number one choice. What are your thoughts?


#2

Dario,

Not sure who you spoke with but I suspect they were pilots who spent $200k going to Riddle and are still angry at themselves for it (there are quite a few). What I can tell you for certain is that I and MANY other Hawaiian Airline pilots trained with ATP and many of the senior pilots here have and continue to send their children there to train.

Adam


(Dario) #3

Adam, thats funny you say that because they all recommended Riddle. Anyways that doesn’t change my mind, ATP is my goal. I had also told them that I wanted to apply to Ohana after ATP and then go to HAL, but a couple of them told me that HAL prefers jet experience over prop and they mostly hire pilots that were not in the military from SkyWest and ExpressJet. Is this true?


#4

Dario,

I’m not surprised (as I said). It’s hard to admit that you could’ve achieved the same goals AND have saved over $100k.

As for the rest, these pilots seem to be confused. Yes Hawaiian does prefer Regional Jet experience over props, WHEN that experience is from small single engine operators like Mokolele. The fact is Hawaiian can give guaranteed interviews and preferential hiring to pilots from ANY airline they like and the only one it’s offered to is Ohana. So what do you think?

Adam


(Dario) #5

Adam, I agree 100%. I was a little thrown off when they didn’t think much of Ohana given that its HAL’s parent organization. But all aside I’m glad I got this cleared up. How is 717 life treating you?


#6

Dario,

Life is great! Off to BNE tomorrow for sim which is always fun.

Btw Hawaiian is Ohana’s parent, they’re not ours! :wink:

Adam


(Dario) #7

Wow glad to hear! Always interested to hear HAL pilots take on the A330 and 717. All the pilots I spoke too said they hated interisland. How long does the sim training take?


#8

Dario,

Well there you go. I hated the Bus. Different strokes as they say.

3 days of sim for recurrent.
Day 1: Practice and New Stuff
Day 2: Maneuvers Validation (demonstrate you can still fly the basics)
Day 3: LOE (Line Operational Eval) It’s a flight done real time in the sim with some “abnormality”. Evaluation of how you work as a crew and decision making.

Adam


(Dario) #9

Adam, wow sounds great especially flying to Brisbane! How often do A330 pilots have to go to training vs 717 pilots, and whats the biggest difference in the training between the two besides them being airbus and boeing?


#10

Dario,

All airlines set training cycles with the FAA based on a number of factors but most have recurrent training either yearly or every 9 mos. It will be the same for all fleets within that airline. ALL Hawaiian pilots have recurrent training once a year and the footprint is as I described above for all fleets. Not sure why you think it would be different?

Adam


(Dario) #11

Adam, in your opinion what would be the best flight school on Oahu just to get some hours in and some experince? I already did an introductory flight at George’s Aviation, not sure about other schools.


(Andrew Lopez ) #12

Eventually regardless where you go you’ll pay about the same amount 200K. It might be taking a pay cut or just paying for school outright.


#13

Dario,

I did my training with ATP and I’m honestly not familiar with any of the schools in Hawaii.

Adam


#14

Andrew,

Really? How do you figure that?

Adam


#15

Andrew,

I disagree with that. According to collegedata.com, the average in-state annual tuition is $9,970. Lets call that $10,000 and multiply by four, giving us a college cost of $40,000.

ATP’s program is $75,995, lets call that $76k. Add those two numbers together and we have $116,000. Heck, add on another $14k for miscellaneous expenses and you have $130,000, which is $70,000 less than the number you quote.

All of this does not even account for doing the first two years at a community college, which is a great idea and would save even more money.

Chris


(Andrew Lopez ) #16

@Chris @Adam … Let’s say ATP will cost about 80K from ZERO time for me unlike some ATP students already have a career… I work as a aircraft mechanic I make around 60-70K a year so if I take “9 months” to complete school that’s would be around 150K … then I have to accumulate hours if I fly 20 hours a week for a year as a CFI I will still be short so put that around 220K not including living expenses. I may be wrong but it’s easier for someone who doesn’t have much responsibilities and have mommy and daddy to take care of them for 2 years.


#17

Andrew,

You are including “opportunity costs”, which is not the same thing as actual costs. You have a point, but you said “Eventually regardless where you go you’ll pay about the same amount 200k”. Arguing the opportunity costs of your situation to somebody else’s is irrelevant.

My mother and father did not take care of me while I was a student or a CFI, the same is true for the vast majority of ATP’s CFIs who are working full time and providing for themselves. I find your comment to be insulting.

Chris


#18

Andrew,

So what you’re saying is in YOUR individual particular situation it’s going to cost YOU over $200k. The original conversation was comparing ATP vs Riddle’s cost so using YOUR math in THAT equation add $120k to the price and another 3yrs of lost wages putting you at over $400k in the hole.

Yes Andrew, life would surely be easier if we all had wealthy parents who took care of us. I didn’t nor did most of the pilots I know. Some did. So what’s your point? For some people life is very easy, for others it’s not. Many raise to the occasion while others use it as an excuse to fail and for all kinds of bad choices in their lives. You can play with the hand you were dealt and move forward or use it as an excuse. Your choice.

Adam


(Andrew Lopez ) #19

@chris @adam yes I’m wrong my opportunity cost I misread where Riddle cost a couple hundred just for pilot. Crazy if you still need to accumulate all those hours after. I’m thinking about working as much OT as I can for a year and save to cover living expenses while at atp possibly work part time. But I’m not sure about the CFI stuff does it look better when applying? I was thinking of buying a Cessna 150 and accumulate hours that way.


#20

Andrew,

I think that being a CFI looks much better than just burning holes in the sky. A CFI is constantly learning and being exposed to new challenges. The same is not true for somebody that is just flying around in circles. That being said, in today’s hiring environment, I am not sure that it matters much.

Chris