Final questions Before I Start

Oh cool I didn’t know that, I thought it was 100 hours?

Oh I just saw this email… So if I fly like 20-30 hours I can use that for credit? That’s great, ya I want to learn from the best and I won’t have much time until I can get into fulltime with ATP. It took you 2 years wow you must’ve been really busy running your restaurant I know that’s more than a full time job! Is that guy failing checkrides, why is it costing so much??That’s great advice thanks buddy!:+1: I’ll probably only take a few lessons make sure I enjoy it and I’m good at it, then dive into the school. :flight_departure:

Bradley,

There hasn’t been a checkride for him to fail. If you don’t fly consistently it’s hard to progress. Regardless the more you fly the more it costs.

Adam

Okay yah that makes sense, not sure why he would take so long and waste that much money? But I get the picture

Bradley,

You can’t use your time as “credit”, although it will of course count towards your total flight time. ATP accepts students starting from zero time or from PPL. In your case, it does seem that they want you to get a little more flight time before they look at your application.

Chris

Oh so you’re saying there’s no discount using time towards the total cost of program, just the total hours? I’m not sure what you’re saying about ATP wanting me to get more flight time before I apply; did you see that in my intro flight records? I really just wanna fly more, haven’t flown since I was a kid except last summer and it was too hot and I got dizzy, but that might’ve been because I didn’t eat much for breakfast is what I’m told? So I just wanna fly more to see if I have the aptitude and still really enjoy it as much as a did when I was a kid.

When I went up last summer on intro flight I was intimidated by seeing nothing but kids at ATP all in their 20’s! and the CFI was discouraging me from doing the program, told me several people were struggling and he thought it would be too much for me at my age.

So I got all this bad news before we even went up flying so it put me in a bad, more tense, frame of mind,which probably raised my BP and that’s probably one of the factors of how I got hypoxia. But he did tell me I should try to get my PPL before starting with ATP which also made me confused since I wanted to start from zero with ATP?? So that’s why I wanted another flight it wasn’t a good first experience, but I’m sure it was my fault; I wasn’t prepared for any bad news or discouragement, I thought it was gonna be fun and exciting.

Bradley,

As mentors, we are happy to answer airline related questions, but we are not able to answer admissions questions. I suggest that you direct all of your admissions related questions to Eric in the admissions as he can best answer them for you.

Chris

I’ve been reading this thread with interest. Primarily because I am one of the older students coming from a busy first career. I have a few hours under my belt as well but will be starting as a “0 hour student” when I finally get to go…

Bradley, I didn’t read anything from mentors or others discouraging you from going. If anything, they are trying to set some realistic expectations for you and i read it is as having less to do with your age and more to do with your certainty that this is the career track for you. I can’t speak for you or your personal situation but I can tell you why I — as someone in his very late 30s — is considering leaving airport work and chasing the Dream. For one, my family situation is changing and will give me the flexibility to trim my budget and be able to accrue less debt. Two, I have a career I can always go back to with no recurrent training required. But none of that is the deciding factor for me… I am doing it because I love flying.
I’ve had bad days flying and I’ve had great days flying. I’ve had days where I doubted that I will ever get it… ultimately, when I had to take a long break from it, I still missed it when I was at an airport and watched some 20 year kid instruct an 18 year old and wishing it was me.
I know that it’s not just a passing fad for me because given the opportunity to do anything with my life I want, it is not A choice for me. It is THE choice… And I frankly don’t care how old my CFIs are—this program is grounded on self-motivation and self-study first and foremost. No “kid” can take that from you and if they aren’t fully in it, ATP will address it.

So, why do you want to be a pilot? Will you be ok with not making it to the airlines? Will you be ok with flying boxes to BFE, WY to pay the bills if the industry takes another dump and furloughs the junior crew?
The least you can do is answer all those questions for yourself and be honest about it.

You CAN take flight lessons at a local school with a good instructor and once you get past your cross-country solos, you can go to ATP and do a finish up option (contact them for details). If you find yourself discouraged or uncertain of your choice, it’s a lot easier to cut your losses then and keep on with your current job than doing so after going to ATP.

I mean no slight or disrespect to you with my post. A lot of your posts read like you’re trying to get someone to change your mind when you already have firm opinions of your own.

2 Likes

I never said anyone discouraged me on this forum, these guys have been awesome and a wealth of information! I said it was my CFI at intro flight for ATP that discouraged me and where I got intimidated

Hey thanks for your reply Sergey, I wanted to send a quick first reply about the forum, that the mentors rock and didn’t want anyone misunderstanding me. I only want to fly cargo and know it’s too late to fly for the airlines. Like I said in my earlier posts that I’ve wanted to fly all my life but had no idea that there were schools out there like ATP nor did I have the resources or credit to get financed. I’ve been driving a truck for 12 years and have never liked it at all! I’ve been working on trying to get into flying for the last 4 years getting my credit score and trying to get into a position to get financed.
You’re in your late 30’s and I’m 54 so I’m not trying to let anyone change my mind I’m just getting more and more new info and sometimes it can be confusing.
Thanks for the flight training info, I’ll have to look into it but I’m working 60 hours/week so I’ll probably start at zero with ATP so I can do it fulltime, after I’m sure I can do this… I still have to get financed first which is taking forever!
So what do you do at the airport, it sounded like a pretty good job when I read your post a few months ago?

I am actually in private practice and airports are my clients. I do airport planning (forecasting, regulatory compliance, standards), airspace obstruction analysis and management, and airport policy analysis (airport/airspace protection). On the airline side I interact with performance engineers and analysts that ensure that the operating procedures they develop for their pilots comply with Part 121 or Part 135 criteria for one-engine inoperative performance. Simply put, I help airports protect clear approach and departure paths, and work with air carriers to understand their needs for getting in and out safely with a full load.

Additionally, don’t limit yourself to cargo options… for me, I like the cargo option for a career because of my love for the 747-8 and night flying… but there are hundreds of things you can do as a commercial pilot without 1,500 hours if going to a Part 121 or 135 operator is not your thing. You can do aerial surveying, work for a private owner/shared owner as a pilot or safety pilot, do powerline or pipeline patrols, fly skydivers, etc. There are dozens of options (and some are hiring well under 1,500 hours) but you won’t come close to airline pay if ROI is your concern.

I was thinking about cargo because Key Lime has cargo flying positions right here where I live, start as captain with only 1200 hours and it’s solo, starting pay is way better than regionals and no age restrictions if I can keep 1st class medical. I’m already driving at night so that should be no problem; you prefer flying at night? But of course I may never get it so having other options is good. Sounds like there’s all kinds of flying jobs out there; I didn’t know that so thanks for the info. :grin::+1::flight_departure::flight_departure:

Wow, then the knowledge for flying should be easy for you, very impressive! Flying will be perfect for you :flight_departure::flight_departure: so do you get to fly on your time off at the airport… where is it?

I don’t expect it to be easy—it’s a very different skill set—multitasking and heavy on critics thinking. But I’m going in with a lot of self motivation and a very focused attitude. This is not gonna be like college for me… I probably will find the instrument rating theory a bit easier, but one thing is to put together or analyze approaches and make sure they meet standards and another is to fly them. I work at a handful of airports in Florida but haven’t flown in a while. 60 hour work week is a thing with me too. Good news is one of my friends just bought an Aztec and I’m itching to go for a drive with him.
When I sign up, I will be going to the DAB location. Also, I made a good friend through this forum who’s now attending ATP and maybe if he decides to relocate here, he can end up instructing me. This community is very tightly knit and I’m sure whatever you do for flying, you are gonna love it.

Where is DAB airport, I dunno any of these abbreviations sorry. Well it’s really nice to talk to someone who’s in with aviation, sounds like a great career to me too and I highly respect the mentors on this forum, they have helped me out so much! When are you planning on going to flight school? I’m going to the centennial school which is only 4 miles away, so I am committed to doing this I moved here just to be really close and key lime is here too!
Did you know that they were hiring starting captain only 1200 hours TT and it paid 62k + 20k bonus after taxes now that’s incredible!

DAB is Daytona Beach, FL and at this time, if all stars align I will start in July. That still depends on a couple of things falling into place but I am committed to getting this done sooner than later.

I checked Key Lime site. I will say this much—I am a pretty skeptical person when it comes down to it, so I read their minimum requirements… keep in mind the word “minimum”. One thing jumped out at me first— pay listed was “up to…” but no hour guarantee was listed. So that paycheck may be a lot smaller than anticipated. Also, you must meet 135.243© requirements which include 500 hours PIC XC, 100 hours night PIC, 75 hours instrument PIC. As they aren’t advertising for cargo FOs this sounds like a single pilot cargo operation—single pilot IFR flying is extremely taxing. So, the question comes to mind; why cut your time building as CFI short at 1200 hours and go fly for Key Lime when you can stay an extra 3-5 months and get a regional FO slot? It will open up far more post retirement options for you.

Thanks for all the great info… no I plan to do all the 1500 as CFI to get max experience. It’s only 4 hours a night flight, that’s why I was interested. I didn’t see where it said up to, I just saw starting at… I’m sure it’s based on experience. But if I make it, I am willing to move anywhere for a good pilot job; I’d like to move back to Vegas but there’s like no pilot jobs thete or I couldn’t find any?? I really don’t like living in CO it’s so overpriced here!
That sounds exciting starting in July you must be used to the heat because I found out there is no AC in the planes!

Hi again, Chris!

Just wanted to update you in case you were curious - plus I’d like a little feedback on my first day experience!

Went up today for 2 hours at KIWA here in Mesa, AZ. The one word I will use for today’s experience: OVERWHELMED. I had a lot of control of the plane during those two hours. When we first climbed and started heading to the “practice area” a bit south of the airport, I was in command for most of the climb to about 5500/6000 feet then leveled off and headed over to the designated “practice area”.

The first hour or so I was looking at my instruments 90% of the time and my CFI was doing all the necessary Coms. I quickly learned I need to FEEL the plane and watch OUT most of the time. I have been reading and studying the past 2-3 weeks on how 90% of your time and focus needs to be looking OUT of the plane but I kept doing the OPPOSITE and staring at my instruments. So I was borderline terrified and worried I am just not cut out for this! I was nervous virtually the whole time but near the end of the flight I was getting a better understanding of the sensations of the lift and drop of the plane as normal, and nothing is wrong.

My CFI really had me do quite a few things! he would randomly say “ok, give me a standard left turn 180 degree from current heading.” I was able to do that somewhat comfortably each time and he said multiple times I did well. we even did turns to a certain heading while also climbing or descending and leveling off at a certain altitude. He had me put flaps at 10 degrees, descend quickly, then give it full throttle, raise the flaps and start climbing again.

telling me when to do everything, he allowed me to descend and do the base leg to final and he took the controls back for the landing. Though I was far less nervous near the end of our flight than when we first went up, my first thought when we landed was “I’m not cut out for this, I shouldn’t do this”. I hope I am not being dramatic at all but it was my first thought when we landed… It was fun, but I suppose I am more afraid than I initially realized so it was hard to really ENJOY the flight while taking so much in and trying not to FEAR the actual flying and new sensations.

I think I am looking for confirmation that these overwhelming/fearful feelings are normal. I am by no means giving up, just sharing my initial and real thoughts. For my very first two hours of flight, it seemed like a lot of control, info and new things all at once.

Totally normal. I can’t speak for everyone, but when I first started doing the solo XC’s, I felt extremely overwhelmed & thought the same thing as you.

I’d say 99% of students are caught staring inside at the instruments at first, & that’s because you don’t have full control over the airplane yet so the moment your eyes leave the cockpit, the plane starts climbing, descending, or turning.

Fly the airplane, don’t let the airplane fly you. Always remember trim, trim, & more trim. Hang in there, you’ll get used to it!