Hello,
I’m looking into joining the atp fast track program. While looking into the policies, I came across the dress code, which stated that you must be clean shaven. I have a beard that I have been growing for a year. It does not look out of control or unkept, and I’d rather not shave it off. Do they enforce the beard policy or not?
Thanks!
John,
I am not sure if ATP enforces the beard policy or not, you would need to talk to the admissions department on that one. What I can tell you is that the airlines absolutely will not allow beards. In fact, it is an FAA requirement because of the need for oxygen masks to seal against the face. So one way or the other, you will need to ditch the beard if you are to be a airline pilot.
Chris
Thank you for the reply Chris. I do not care as much about a couple years down the road while getting hired by an airliner but during training/working at a local airport seems a bit extreme to not be able to have a beard
John,
I do not think that it seems extreme at all. ATP trains future airline pilots, as such, they expect their instructors and students to look like future airline pilots. No matter what you think of a beard, the industry considers it to be unprofessional.
I would plan on the policy being enforced, like all other policies. I could also see ATP not hiring you as a CFI if you are intentionally disregarding a corporate policy as a student.
Chris
I understand that atp is getting students prepared for the airlines, but after a bit more research on my end, it still does seem a bit overboard to me. If oxygen masks were utilized during the training/cfi process I would be more understanding. This is of course implying that the effectiveness of oxygen masks were still at jeopardy with a beard. According to another user on here, Hawaiian airlines allows full beards because oxygen masks are more advanced and not hindered by beards. Either way, thanks for taking the time to reply and give me some insight on your experience.
While Hawaiian may allow more facial hair than others, every other airline in the US prohibits anything beyond a mustache and there is no debating their policies.
Beyond that, every company has a right to impose dress code and grooming standards on their employees and contractors. ATP has chosen to ask their people to be clean shaven.
I think that wearing a pilot hat is ridiculous, it clearly has nothing to do with safety or how I perform my job, but United tells me that I have to wear one, so I do. If I were to argue the point with my boss, I would find myself unemployed. ATP telling you that you need to be clean shaven is no different than United telling me to wear a pilot hat.
Thanks for your response Chris. You are correct in that ATP does follow the same grooming policy that the airlines do. More specifically, we require that all male students have a hair cut above the collar, and must be clean-shaven. Again, students are entering a professional field and as such we want them to present themselves accordingly.
Greg
John,
With all due respect it’s totally your call. Call it overboard or anything else you want but that’s the policy. If you don’t like it it’s INCREDIBLY simple. Don’t train with ATP. Not sure how old you are but I had a beard for more years than I hadn’t when I signed up and believe me we were quite attached. I did my research and determined that there was no better route to the airlines than ATP so I signed up. They said the beard had to go so I did some pondering "airline career or beard?..hmmmm. That mental conversation took about a half a second and the beard was gone and stayed gone for 10yrs. I’m now a Capt at Hawaiian, getting paid VERY well living the dream and the beard is back BUT if I hadn’t have shaved it I would not be here.
Seriously is this really a problem?
Oh and before anyone asks, yes you also have to cut off your “man-bun” 
Adam
No I’m not. I upgraded onto the B717 in November. That long haul heavy flying is for young men like you LaMorris
Adam
Hi Adam,
My name is Tyson and I am a Marine Corps. veteran with a strong drive to get to where you are after so many years of hard work and dedication. I am currently about three weeks away from my check ride for my part 141 private pilot’s license, weather permitting. I am enrolled with Liberty University’s Aeronautic degree program, but have been thinking about a faster track with ATP. Several pilots I spoke with this weekend at the NorthWest Aviation Conference meet-and-greet said that I don’t really need a degree but it doesn’t hurt to have one. I would like to continue my aviation path with RAVN Alaska after I have over 300 hours and my Commercial Multi-Engine add-on. I spoke with several of the guys at RAVN Alaska and they said ATP si a much faster route to the regional airlines. I’m looking to finish as soon as possible since seniority with the airlines seems to be key. I have no problem shaving my beard and getting a clean fade haircut. I am a US Marine and can make things happen. My main concern is the $55k I have to spend to fund the 6 month school since the GI Bill is not accepted with ATP. Is this ATP program really worth all the coin? Or should I continue to utilize my post 9/11 GI Bill which only pays for 60% of my online aeronautics degree with Liberty University. Any input or direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Semper Fidelis,
Tyson
Tyson,
If you read your post I believe you answered your own question. There is no faster route to a Regional than ATP AND seniority is everything at airlines. While I completely understand and appreciate the desire to save money I think you need to look more long term. Airline pilots have a finite amount of years they can fly but you don’t make the real money until you upgrade to widebody Capt and have built a fair amount of seniority. What I’m saying is if it takes you just one extra year to get to a Regional that’s $300k+ you’ll never see (not even talking about each year during the entire career you’ll be a pay year back). If money’s tight and you simply can’t manage the debt then I understand waiting and using your bennies but if you can swing it it’s worth the investment. Btw you can use the GI Bill for checkride fees (approx. $8k) if that helps.
I’d love to Semper Fi you back but I never earned that honor. I’ll simply thank you for your service.
Adam
@Adam, well congratulations on the upgrade sir! That’s awesome. I hope I’m still young if I’m fortunate enough to reach that level of flying (I’m 32) lol:joy:
LaMorris
Adam,
Thanks for the quick response. I really appreciate your feedback. You have no idea what it means to me to have someone as esteemed as yourself to verify this is a better idea. I have the available funds to fund the schooling, I’m just a miser by nature, that’s all. However, if you think it would be more beneficial, I would have to agree: the faster ATP route is the way to go. I’ve just heard so much negative from folks at the university degree-type flight schools about ATP just being a “pilot-factory”, cranking out mediocre pilots. I just needed to get a few real professionals opinion on which is my best route. Sounds like you agree with the rest of the mainline commercial pilots: ATP is THE way to go. Thanks again for your input and advice. It is a true honor to chat with you. I look forward to our next conversation and possibly working together one day in the future.
Semper Fi,
Tyson
Tyson,
First off ALL pilots are by nature cheap so you’re a natural! As for the University folks let me say this, if you had spent $200k on you’re licenses and ratings and were sitting right seat for a Capt who spent $70k you’d be kind of annoyed too. Best part is you can’t imagine how many pilots I fly with who went to aviation universities but sent their children to ATP when they wanted to train. Truth is ATP is a pilot factory, what’s wrong with that? ATP has placed over 500+ pilots at Regional airlines in the last 12mos alone. Again why is that a bad thing? The reality is ATP does produce mediocre pilots, and great pilots, and I’m sure some less than great pilots but so does every other program on the planet. Like many things you’ll get as much or as little out of the training as you put in. If you aspire to be a great pilot than you will be.
Adam
Tyson,
I have heard the “pilot factory” name levied against ATP before and to that I say “darn right they are”. ATP has been cranking out pilots for decades, over that time they have produced literally thousands upon thousands of airline pilots. They have the process finely tuned so as not to waste the student’s time or money. That doesn’t mean that the student does not get individual attention, it means that instruction is done in an efficient manner.
As far as ATP producing mediocre pilots, I would disagree with that. To begin with, every single pilot takes the exact same FAA tests and checkrides, so the standard is the same for everybody, from every flight school. Secondly, I have always felt that my education at ATP appropriately prepared me for my career in aviation. Thirdly, the regional airlines love hiring ATP instructors, just look at the “Placements” page on ATP’s website. If ATP was turning out mediocre pilots, the airlines wouldn’t be rushing to hire them.
Chris
What’s more senior at HAL: 717 inter-island, 330 int’l, or 330 domestic?
Paul,
Right now the A330 is our most senior aircraft, however due to the rapid growth and seat locks, many newhires are hired right into it. There is no Intl or Domestic. If you’re on the Bus you’re on the Bus and you bid the trips you want. There are senior and junior trips for both.
Adam
Hi Chris,
How about tattoos? I don’t have anything extreme, just an arm sleeve.
Eryka,
ATPs Dress Code makes no mention of tattoos (https://atpflightschool.com/faqs/uniform_policy.html) so I think you’ll be ok. You should know that all airlines prohibit “visible tattoos” and that’ll mean long sleeve shirts for your entire career.
Adam