Hey all
Currently enrolled in an Instrument-CFII program.
I’m about half way through my IFR program and have about 12 hours of instrument time under my belt, about 9 hours “under the hood” and flying, about 4 hours in a sim. My IFR training has certainly been the most challenging so far. Just simply a mountain of information to memorize and so many damn acronyms! But, it’s certainly all starting to click now in terms of briefing approaches etc!
I was thinking of doing additional at home training to more consistently practice departures, approaches, flows/procedures, DME arcs, NDB experience, etc.
What’s the best sim of choice at the moment? YEARS ago I had a little bit of experience with MS flight sim, but I’ve heard a lot of good things about Xplane.
Also, any recommendations on a stick/rudder setup? Or is going cheap and getting just a good ol Logitech with rudder input good enough? Of course the actual flight school itself had made funds tight, so I’m not looking to break the bank. Although, I am willing to invest if the value is there. Anyone selling used equipment ? Appreciate the input guys!
My input is you should go to a flight school that offers unlimited professional (like RedBird, Frasca, and Precision Flight Controls) sim time as part of their training. Somewhere like ATP. Besides that I couldn’t tell you but perhaps others will chime in?
I am very much against students using flight simulator, or any other home based computer simulation devices. I think these program teach some serious bad habits that can be very hard to un-learn later down the road. They also build false confidence. I suggest spending your resources on more flight training.
Yea, I’m currently training in a Redbird and Fresca at my school. But it’s quite expensive. My main reason for a flight sim would be better understanding of spatial awareness in regards to like flying a DME arc which I occasionally struggle with in the air, and just working on my flows etc, climb checklist, decent checklist, before landing FAF etc. Also, the redbird etc I think are much harder to fly than the real deal. Such touchy controls haha
ALL flight sims are more sensitive the real plane which forces you to “tighten” things up. As far as the procedures you refer to I find chair flying (which is free) is very effective.
I have to agree with Chris and Adam. A home flight sim is really more for those that treat it as a game rather than actual flight training.
Chair fly in the sim or in the airplane. Memorize the flows and back it up with the checklists.
Instrument flying was the toughest part of training for me. Repetition and discussion was what helped me get better at it. Xplane or MS sim would not have solved my problems.
Flight Simulator will not help you work on flows, or run checklists. It is a computer game, simple as that. Think of it as somebody playing Oregon Trail to learn how to cross the country in a Conastoga wagon, it isn’t going to have one bit of practical application.
I think many successful pilots would whole heartedly disagree with the opinions above.
Nothing can replace real world flight experience, but there is a lot of value in doing a real world lesson and then coming home and cementing that information on a sim. Don’t expect to build muscle memory for stick and rudder skills, but for practicing procedures, checklists, talking to ATC and getting familiar with certain glass cockpits, I think it’s a fantastic resource.
If you’re learning in an intense environment like ATP, then I wouldn’t bother. Your evenings are better spent resting and reviewing ground knowledge, but if you’re doing things Part 61 and you’re not able to fly every day then I would seriously look into it.
I use Xplane in conjunction with Pilot Edge for ATC. My current financial and work situation has only allowed me to fly once every two weeks and train Part 61 for my PPL. I live in a very busy airspace (coastal Southern California) and train out of a Class C. I currently have 41 hours accumulated over 9 months and have my check ride scheduled in 2 weeks. Make of that what you will, but had I not had a simulator at home to practice on while I couldn’t afford to fly, I don’t think I would be where I am today.
Whatever works best for you is what works best for you. The problem is there are far too many aspiring pilots who have decided to train themselves on their at home sims and somehow get the idea they can fly. They can’t. But sure if you use it procedurally to reinforce some skills, sure why not.
Btw, you keep mentioning Part 61 training as if it’s deficient in some way. ATP happens to be a Part 61 school and does a very fine job.
Sorry Adam, when I say Part 61 I’m referring to the pay-as-you-go, joining a club and finding a private instructor route, rather than the intensive full-time route offered by an organization like ATP. I definitely don’t believe it to be deficient in any way.
That’s what I was thinking. Nothing will replace real-world flight time, and I have no intention of improving my stick/rudder controls etc. I just want greater practice with spatial awareness, various approaches, procedure turns, DME holds etc., while I’m working on my IFR rating.
Ok guys, this is America and you can do as you like. Again there also may be some benefit using an at home sim for procedural training BUT, let’s understand something. Unless you’re going to create a full size accurate reproduction of the plane you’re training in, your PC sim will not improve your “spatial awareness”. That is why when/if you do get to an airline they will not provide you with the MSFS or X-Flt version of the plane you’ll be flying BUT they will give you a 3/4 or full size poster of the cockpit (aka paper tiger).
I am not sure what pilots you are referencing, but the three airline pilots on this forum, all with thousands of hours of flight time, two major airline captains, and I believe all three gold seal CFIs, disagree with you on flight sim. Something to think about.
With all due respect, the three airline pilots commenting on this thread all went through an accelerated program where they were flying almost every day until they got a job at the airlines. I’ve already admitted that a home simulator in that case is not necessary.
How is a 3/4 size poster of the cockpit helpful but a fully interactive simulator is not? There are add-ons now for home simulators that are exact replicas, function for function of G1000’s, GTN650’s etc. You can even send that signal to an external tablet and set it up right in front of you where the screen utilizes touch commands just like a real GTN650. On top of that, both Foreflight and Garmin Pilot will connect to home simulators so you can experience what it’s like to fly with those apps. How can you say that would be absolutely no use to a pilot in training?
No one is saying a home simulator should replace real world flight training, but I’m very surprised that the three of you would disregard them the way you have. My guess is that you’ve either not used one or you’re not up to date on what the current home sims are capable of.
I’m sure pilots with thousands of hours of experience were saying the same thing about iPads just a few years ago.
I find it odd how opposed all three of you are towards in-home flight sims…
#1 I never said it would make me become a commercial airline pilot without the commercial pilot program I’m already enrolled in.
It would just supplement my at home training, and something I could practice on my own time and help cement previous lessons.
My former Navy and UND educated CFI also thinks it’s a great idea and found it odd when I mentioned how uniformly opposed you all were. It’s something that helped him when he was a student as well.
Maybe you’re all under the assumption that I’m under the impression that I’ll become an excellent pilot shooting down Messerschmitts over Stalingrad with an Xbox controller… I’m just looking to further practice instrument scans etc while in simulated holds, DME arcs etc., in practice areas I’ve already flown in.
First off Ricky Bobby you start by saying “with all due respect” but you clearly don’t have any (and that’s fine). I stated there’s some value to home simulators but not as much as you may believe and that’s what got you twisted. All are welcome to come here and rant BUT before you and your whopping 41hrs start spewing and insulting you might want to take a moment and READ what was written. The fact you don’t see how a poster would do more for a pilot’s SPATIAL AWARENESS then ForeFlight, Pilot or ANY application you could download to your iPad demonstrates you A) didn’t take the time to read what I said and more important B) clearly don’t even understand what spatial awareness is.
As for our “not being up to date” do you really want to go there? Reason being I’m 100% certain the Surface Pro that’s mounted in my cockpit that delivers moving map for ALL domestic and international routes (including taxi routes w/ NOTAMS), airspace alerts, wx overlays (including charted SIGMETS/AIRMETS), all of which will update with your clearances real time and includes TCAS advisories is more “up to date” than whatever you have in YOUR cockpit. Oh wait, you’ve been working on your PPL longer than it took ALL of us to earn ALL our licenses and rating, you don’t have a cockpit
Finally, as for those “pilots with thousands of hours” you mock, I’d rather be one of them then one of the three new low-time tech savvy MPL pilots who flew a perfectly good A330 into the Pacific all screaming “what’s happening?!?” staring at their glass screens while EVERY REAL pilot on the planet was asking why didn’t they simply lower the nose?
Most of us were absolutely thrilled about the iPads as they represented a huge leap in technology for us.
Everything you mentioned is really cool and fun to use, but it simply isn’t the same as flying an airplane and can be a negative for all the reasons I mentioned in my first post. But hey, if you like using it, go for it.
Isn’t strange at all, different people have different views in life, that is why some people vote republican while others vote democrat. Since your CFI is recommending it, go for it. If you were my student, I would expressly forbid you from using it.
Warren and Peter,
A bit of advice on this forum, I know this from experience. If it’s not ATP it’s not right. Doesn’t matter what your discussing. They would probably argue polo shirts over t-shirts since that’s what ATP requires that’s how the whole world should be. Just look at the few times I’ve made comments that don’t fit their cookie cutter. My advice would look at some outside flight sim forums. I’ve never heard of instructors that hated sims like they guys do. I’ve actually know some instructors that if they knew you were flying a sim at home would give you flight and lesson plans to do to reinforce what you are learning. Just flows and checklist stuff. It’s for some people easier to retain than looking at a 3/4 scale printout.
But really if your not asking about how amazing atp is or how it can help you avoid this forum.
What does our personal opinions on a particular aspect of flight training have anything to do with ATP? Clearly you have an axe to grind and that’s fine but you should save your comments for something relevant or something that makes sense. Since we’re on the subject ATP makes extensive use of professional simulators and offers all its students unlimited use of them for no additional charge (thank you for the opportunity to give ATPs program a plug in the middle of your rant). The question was the value of unsupervised use of home simulators. I said they have some value in certain areas but you and your boy Warren both ignored that because it didn’t fit your agendas.
“But really if your not asking about how amazing atp is or how it can help you avoid this forum.”
If thats what you believe what are you doing here? Someone as knowledgeable as you can certainly apply his talents elsewhere where they’re not wasted on our ATP propaganda. Oh and do me a favor, IF (and that’s a HUGE if) you ever make it to airline, let me know how it goes when they hand you your 3/4 cockpit poster and you tell them “thanks but I’m good, I have MSFS at home”
? Appreciate the input guys!
