Real Answers from Real Pilots

ATP CFI placement/ addt'l question for Adam

Hey guys, I try to search my questions first & also ask them in pairs but cant find any info on these topics on the site. First, how does the ATP placement for the CFI job work? I read somewhere you list 3 locations you would like and they proceed based on their needs. Do you even get any say so as the customer turn employee? If I listed all three locations in the DFW area what do you think my possibility of ending up out of state or somewhere else in Texas would be? I know, that may be a question better suited for an ATP rep, but I appreciate your honest answers and don’t want a cliche answer from a rep. Second, Adam I noticed you have facial hair on your profile pic…Does HA allow facial hair?

Tre,

The policy actually changed fairly recently. In the past ATP asked you for your top 3 preferences and they would do their best to get you to one of them. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your take), due to the volume of students desiring the positions, while ATP will guarantee you an instructor position, they will cannot/will not guarantee a location and therefore changed the policy. Now, before you go for Instructor Standardization, you’ll be given a list of available location from which you can chose. Hopefully there will be at least one that fits your needs/desires, if not you’re free to go elsewhere. While some might not find this ideal, it’s the same as when you apply to any airline. You’ll be placed at the domicile where there’s a need.

Hawaiian Airlines is the only airline in the US that allows full beards (JetBlue allows goatees). Now you will hear that the airlines prohibit beards because they interfere with the O2 masks but that’s simply not the case anymore (otherwise we would not have been able to get the FAA to sign off on our policy). The other airlines it seems continue to perpetuate this myth as a means of maintaining the “dress code and appearance standards” they desire.

Adam

I’ve heard most european airlines are allowing beards now as well, but they do have standards in terms of grooming and length. You can’t look like ZZ Top and fly for them, or look like me right now even… I just figured I’d let mine go as long as I could before I head to into ATP!

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I’ve shaven once a month, sometimes letting it go longer, for the last 2 years and I just shaved it for the first time to get used to no facial hair, it is weird…

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I haven’t trimmed in almost 6 months now… I’ve got about 3-3.5" at the bottom at this point. I haven’t been clean shaven in a decade. :astonished:

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Hi James,
Are they strict about the beard policy at atp or were you able to keep your beard during training/cfi with them?

John,

How many times are you going to ask this question? Chris already gave you a very thorough answer about ATP’s beard policy. I get that you have strong feelings about keeping your beard. Think big picture. What’s more important to you? The beard? Or a career? Plus, why would ATP or any business be inclined to bend their policy for the one person that doesn’t want to comply with the rules? I know that it’s your money and you may feel entitled to keep your personal image, but this is ATP’s school, not yours.

Tory

I will ask the question, to how ever many people I have to until I find the information I am looking for. No one has answered the direct question in regards to atp’s strictness on their policy. I have never once asked anyone to bend their policy to conform to me, but rather, have asked about the experience people have had while at atp.
Anyways, thanks for the rudeness with your reply, but hey, I guess you may feel entitled to write what you want on here.

John,

I just spoke with ATP administration. Their grooming policy is strictly enforced for both students and flight instructors.

Chris

Thanks for looking into that for me Chris!

StoryTime: Back when I was doing my standardization training in Jax there was a young man doing his ACPP training and was in the sim. One of the owners of ATP happened by and noticed the young man was wearing a baseball hat cocked sideways and earrings. The owner promptly (and very politely) reminded the young man of the dress code and that he needed to remove his hat and earrings. The young man got loud and went off on how he gave ATP ALOT of money and he could wear and do what he wants bla bla bla. The owner very calmly explained that ATP was for professionals and therefore not for him. He continued to tell the young man he needed to pack his things and a refund would be waiting for him. I honestly think of that young man from time to time and wonder what ever became of him? Maybe he became a pilot but I have my doubts.

Adam

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To be clear, although others have answered this, I arrived on my orientation day freshly shaven. The grooming and uniform policies are enforced, that post was from 9 months before I began training with ATP, and my photo on here was taken more than a year ago.

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The first time you have to be told to shave will be a warning, the second will be a discussion and notification of the training center manager, and after that lessons will be cancelled and no/show fees charged. That will not only cost you more money, but will slow down your progress in the program, and put negative marks on your record with ATP. Aviation is a small community, the goal is to be professional and have a good standing with everyone you encounter from day 1.

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