Real Answers from Real Pilots

Another Youtube video


(Tom Tolento) #1

Hey Guys,

Since you’re busy answering FAQs figured I’d give you a heads up. Mike from Fly8MA posted another video that I’m sure will get you a bunch of questions (Like his last viral one of “how horrible the regionals are” did) and hoped to help kinda nip it in the butt sooner than later. On a side note I love how he blasted how horrible it was in the regionals on the last video and then in this one he talks about how he got to travel everywhere and see places he never would have without the regionals.

But back to the post Mike posted about Lufthansa having an Aviation Training location in Arizona and brings up that maybe US carriers will go to this soon.

To those new to the forums I would not expect this in the near future at all. Closest you will get is companies like AA and Jetblue putting their name on a program and you still footing the bill. I’m not a airline pilot just someone who has been looking into this for the last few years doing a lot of research (and actually started flight training back in 2001).

Also understand that in the EU they still have the 250hr rule (or close to it) so its not gonna be worth the time or money for the US carriers as Lufthansa only has to put their students through 16% of the time compared to the FAA minimums.

On the flip side though for those that ask are there jobs outside of the airlines, here’s one that would make an ok living, with benefits as a CFI.


#2

I am really not sure what to make of his Top Gun like shirt and sunglasses on his head inside. That aside, it does seem like an interesting place to work as a CFI.

Before people get all excited thinking that this is free, it isn’t. To my knowledge, all of the European cadet programs do charge the students, but they structure it differently than we do. In this case, Lufthansa finances the cost of 60,000 euros and then has the student repay it at 300 euros per month once they complete training. IT is still a good deal, but it is by no means free, something that is not addressed in the video.


#3

Tom,

Kudos to Mike for once again creating a RIDUCULOUSLY over-simplified albeit flame-baiting “get people to talk about and visit my website so I can go another year without working a real job” video. As you pointed out in the US we have the 1500 Rule so right off the bat the ab-initio concept is a challenge. We also don’t have MPL EASA licenses which require significantly less training but contrary to Mike (The Expert’s) opinion, does not produce a better product (reference AirFrance 447). What I do find interesting is that Lufthansa chose to set up shop here in the US. Why do you suppose that is? Mike wants you to believe that Lufthansa is more interested in doing the right thing by it’s pilots and CFIs. So why aren’t they doing the training back in Germany? I’m sure that would make things more convenient for their EU future pilots wouldn’t it? No, they’re taking their GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED profits and saving a TON of cash by flying their students here to train. I love Mike’s socialist view of what the US carriers should do but again he fails to mention Lufthansa’s govt subsidies and protections US carriers don’t have. Further the Majors here aren’t experiencing a shortage and they’ve made significant improvements to help the Regionals partners (obviously not to Millennial Mike’s level of satisfaction). Sure they’ve created a very nice facility, they HAD to in order to convince these pilots to pack up and leave but you can bet they’re still getting paid. CFI progression and advancement is great, if you’re planning on being a career CFI. Most of the pilots I know don’t want to spend 2 mos (whether they’re getting paid or not) getting standardized let alone years working their way up the CFI ladder. I will concede that due to the setup they’ve created a very nice environment for the CFIs and I think EVERYONE should apply there and then ask Mike what they can do after the 10 slots are full.

What really annoys me is all we’re doing is helping Mike by talking about him and his video. He’s a smart kid who enjoyed the bennies of the career but wanted none of the responsibility and created a means to go through a good portion of his life unshaven and wearing shades. Then again so do I except I do it flying planes, not hoping I can make a career of getting people riled up. That I do for fun on this forum :wink:

Adam


(Tory) #4


(Tom Tolento) #5

Chris, interesting I didn’t know the airlines had cadet programs overseas I just heard about the internships where you learn about the company and expectations while doing your flight training. Also I didn’t notice the sunglasses inside I was getting more agitated with the agreeing nod every 2 words from the LAT guy.

Adam,
I know we are feeding into it but felt it’s bound to hit here at some point so why not give you guys the heads up. Also stop with your “it’s a lovely day in Hawaii” because it’s also a lovely 42° here in Philly so what now :joy::joy:.

Tory,
… I got nothing the Gif is perfect! Lol


#6

42 ain’t bad. You also have cheesesteaks :slight_smile:

Adam


#7

Tom,

The whole cadet program came from Europe and is relatively new to the US. I have mixed thoughts on the whole concept.

Chris


(Khanh Vo) #8

My friend was a Vietnamese cadet pilot (EASA format) joined Vietnam Airlines 2 years ago once told me that the carrier asked him to pay 75.000 USD for PPL, CPL, IR/ME, Multi Crew license UPFRONT. After spending 2 years in Lithuania, they asked him again to pay 80.000 USD for type rating, base and line training. By the end of his 3-year program, it costed him roughly 170.000 USD. Far worse than in the U.S. Don’t think that because it’s a cadet program then you don’t have to pay :money_with_wings:, everything has its own price. :ok_hand:

Good day folks!!!


(Austin Johann) #9

Adam

You mentioned that there’s no shortage of pilots in the majors. I don’t disagree because I simply don’t know one way or the other, but what’s the deal with the outcry of pilot shortage in the airlines? Is the shortage mostly in reference to the regionals? I know not everyone’s guaranteed a job, but I’m planning on attending ATP within the next three years, partly due to my hearing of the pilot shortage. I’m wondering/feeling slightly concerned now about my future job market.

Austin


#10

Austin,

The majors are the top of the pyramid in aviation and likely always will be. There are many thousands of regional and military pilots that would like to work at the majors and many of them will as there are always retirements and right now the airlines are growing.

Don’t get us wrong, there are job opportunities at the majors, I believe my airline alone hired somewhere around 600 pilots last year, but it is not the feeding frenzy that it is at the regionals.

Chris


#11

Austin,

I’m concerned about your concern? Are you saying the only reason you’re pursuing a career in aviation because you heard there’s a shortage and you’re thinking getting hired is a lock? If so you may want to rethink this whole thing.

The fact is yes there is a tremendous pilot shortage at the Regional level and as Chris said there are definitely opportunities to advance to the Majors but as you said nothing is guaranteed. The airlines hire well-trained, motivated and professional pilots. There’s no question the shortage has caused the Regionals to loosen up some but you still need to do well and be successful in training.

My question for you is if you heard the shortage was over and staffing/hiring had returned to normal levels would you seek a different career? The truth is the airline industry can be somewhat volatile and things can and have literally changed in a single day (ie, 9/11). One of my fears is there’s this entire group of new pilots who believe advancement in this industry is a given and at the first sign of trouble will cut and run. THEN we’ll really see a shortage.

Adam


(Tory) #12

Austin,

I just want to emphasize what Adam said. Statements like, “I’m planning on attending ATP within the next three years, partly due to my hearing of the pilot shortage” make us raise an eyebrow. Aviation is not that kind of career. We feel passionate about what we do, and worked very hard to get to where we are. None of us had intentions of exploiting the pilot shortage. I’m doubtful of anyone who starts their journey to becoming a pilot without pure intentions.

Tory


(Austin Johann) #13

Tory and Adam

Thank you for your gut check questions and honest thoughts.
I specifically asked about the shortage and my potential concern with it in regards to a couple factors in my head and life. One big thing is the ability to get a job. I don’t by any means whatsoever see a career in aviation as an easy route, or a lock just because I want it or the airlines will take anything that walks.
One thing I consider is my family’s budget. When financing an amount of money that’s nearly the size of my mortgage, I need some confidence that I can land (pun intended) a job. An example to convey my thoughts.
Every year there are hundreds, thousands, of student athletes in the NCAA that hope to get drafted by an NFL team come spring. There are plenty who don’t get drafted, and that’s that. All those years of sacrificing their body in a sport they love, they weren’t wasted, but they didn’t end in the result they hoped for.
In my little world it’s not all about the money, but I need to be able to confidently tell my wife “yes, it’s alright, we’ll make it. We won’t be stuck with 2 mortgages.”

Adam, to address a specific question of “if hiring levels were normal, would I seek something else?” My answers no. I would still choose this path.
I have never worked in aviation, so an honest thought is a few years in, it may not be all I imagined it to be and not enjoy the airline life. If that were the case, I would desire to seek something else that would capitalize on my enjoyment of aviation.
To close, thanks again for your thoughts and questions guys. And I apologize, I didn’t mean to de-value or belittle your passion and hard work you’ve all put in to get where you are. As I mentioned, there’s lots of factors in my head and life, but I care not to voice everything and how my life is over a forum for all to see.

Austin


#14

Austin,

No apology necessary and no offense taken. The fact again is the way things are and the way they’re forecasted to be, as long as you’re successful in your training and have no significant skeletons you will get hired at a Regional and in more cases than not eventually advance to a Major.

I’ve simply seen far too many pilots invest so much time and energy into this career with the impression that it’s a cake walk. It’s not rocket science but it does take a fair amount of intelligence, coordination and dedication. I’ve seen this industry going ridiculously well and then not be so well. The pilots with a passion stick it out, forge ahead and eventually come out fine on the other side. Those who don’t get bitter, quit and curse the profession. Just making sure you’re the former.

Adam


(Tory) #15

Austin,

No need to apologize. Just couldn’t help but speak up. Thank you for clarifying.

Tory